Sutcliffe Jugend, duo formé de Kevin Tomkins et de Paul Taylor, est une formation
historique du genre industriel bruitiste dit “power electronics”, qui a émergé
des expérimentations aussi diverses et extrêmes que celles de Throbbing Gristle ou SPK. Formé en 1982, parallèlement à Whitehouse, autre groupe culte dans lequel a œuvré Kevin Tomkins, Sutcliffe Jugend partage
le goût de la provocation radicale[1]
et des expériences musicales ultime. Après avoir produit deux albums au
début des années 80, la formation a connu une phase de mise en
sommeil jusqu’au milieu des années 90, produisant depuis lors près d’une
vingtaine d’albums dans des genre extrêmement différents, du power electronics
au spoken word. Pour une approche plus détaillée de leurs dernières productions, nous renvoyons les lecteurs d'Idiocratie vers la critique de leur avant-dernier album 'Shame', dont il est largement question dans cette interview, accordée à Idiocratie par Kevin Tomkins et Paul Taylor, à l'occasion du festival 'Hinoeuma, the malediction', en février 2017 à Londres.
La traduction française de l'interview est disponible dans le numéro zéro de la version papier d'Idiocratie sortie en octobre. Vous pouvez le commander ici au prix de 10 € frais de port compris.
La traduction française de l'interview est disponible dans le numéro zéro de la version papier d'Idiocratie sortie en octobre. Vous pouvez le commander ici au prix de 10 € frais de port compris.
Idiocratie: Why did you choose Peter
Sutcliffe for the name of your band ?
Sutcliffe Jugend (Kevin Tomkins/Paul Taylor) : I started recording around
1979 at first with friends then alone. About 1981-82 the name I had settled on
when I first sent tapes to Crass and Come Org. was Death Squad. It was Come
Org. that showed an interest for obvious reasons. I sent two or three tapes,
one of which was concerning The Yorkshire Ripper. His violence fitted perfectly
the violence of the music, which in turn was influenced by Suicide, TG, SPK and
Whitehouse. The label suggested the name 'Sutcliffe Jugend' after a track
called Ripper Youth we had included on the demo, for the release of the
'Campaign' cassette. To be honest I had never heard the word 'Jugend' before,
but it was perfect at the time. It's not really relevant anymore, as in all
names it becomes abstracted from its meaning with time and it's use as a name,
but I still like it for its divisive power, especially when I explain who
Sutcliffe was and what Jugend means.
Idiocratie : Sutcliffe
Jugend appeared in 1982, realized ten tapes and nothing none until 1994 and
your first album, what happened to you in between ?
SJ : I was still very busy with
music. It's well documented that I put SJ on hold when William Bennett asked me
to join Whitehouse with Philip Best (and Peter Sotos for the two USA tours). I
was with them for about two years. We all had the same philosophy and artistic
ideas, I think that was more important than any particular musical ability at
the time. The live shows were amazing. It was an important time for harsh
electronic music. I left the band after wanting to quit London. I had become
depressed and I wasn't enjoying being in the band anymore. If it wasn't for
future commitments, I would have quit around the time of the German tour which
would have cut my time in the band in half. After I quit I obtained an early
sampler and recorded a considerable amount of loop pieces. One of which 'Fear and Anticipation' appeared much later on 'The Victim As Beauty' album. A few
other tracks from the period appeared on the compilation box set 'Archive IV'.
I formed the band 'Bodychoke' with Paul Taylor in the
early nineties, who is now one half of Sutcliffe Jugend of course. He was also
involved with SJ before I joined Whitehouse. We've always been close friends,
so it was only a matter of time before we worked together again. We went on to
record three albums as Bodychoke and one further compilation of unreleased
material. I guess the song 'The Red Sea' or the album 'Cold River Songs'
capture the sound of the band best. Bodychoke were more of a rock or post-rock
band than SJ, so we played quite a few gigs with the likes of Ramleh and
Skullflower, who were the most similar bands to us in London at the time, both
of whom are still making music of course.
Idiocratie : This year (2016) Sutcliffe
Jugend had a tremendous activity : three albums in one year, a retrospective of
6CD package and a new realization which will be out in February. Were you
particularly inspired by present events and present society or something completely
different ?
SJ: Every album we do has a
different concept and is well thought out before we proceed. On the 6CD box set
S L A V E S each disc has a different title 'Theatre of Cruelty',
'Theatre of Tragedy' etc. the music reflecting the particular 'Theatre' in some
way. The title of the album concerns how each of us are slaves to our
environment, genes, passions and subconscious machinations, the 'Theatres'
represent those things we think 'we' control or have some prized image of, but
ultimately of course, we don't.
So much bullshit is spoken in music and art regards
concepts and what the 'artist' is trying to say and what their 'message' is
we've found it refreshing to go back to an almost scientific framework.
Understanding who we are, not through some kind of hippy mystic alternative but
through genetic science, sociology, psychology and scientific process. The
difficulty then is processing our particular viewpoint, emotions and passions
with that in mind and staying true to some kind of values.
Idiocratie : One of your last piece,
Offal, is very striking and crashed into 2016 like a strange meteor. It’s an
unsettling dive into nihilism and autodestruction. Your last piece, Shame, is
also very impressive. Listening to it made me think of Max Scheler : “one who
doesn't take revenge is weak, one who does is a criminal.” A philosophical dead
end which echoes in our desolate and violent post-modern world. I thought also
as if you've decided to transform in a world of sound the frightening
description of Guy Debord at the beginning of In Girum Nocte. Well, all these
suggestions, maybe right or not, left appart, the question remains : what is it
about in Shame or Offal ? The dark side of every human being lurking in a dark
corner ? Post-modern dereliction turned into all forms of hate, sexual and
self-destruction ?
SJ : I'm not familiar with the Max
Scheler quote, but the reference to Guy Debord is definitely something I can
relate to. The sequence in 'Girum Nocte' is something I recommend anyone check
out if they haven't already. It's a brutal analysis, and if I remember
correctly it's something very much in line with the view I was trying express
on 'Offal'. The futile absurdity of existence expressed as directly as
possible. The absurdity of an artist believing they are saying something
important, some great revelation, I also find disturbing. That is something
that may come with time and analysis, but not as self proclamation.
With 'Offal' as with other
albums I've used sex as a metaphor. I find it very powerful. I think some are
under the miscomprehension we're trying to articulate some kind of violent sex
fantasy and I suppose, that it can be read on many levels, but rarely are
things quite as they seem. The violent sex scene at the end of 'Cleave' for
example is actually a metaphor for everything that comes with being in
Sutcliffe Jugend. The violence one is subjected to in art and culture, but more
specifically the violence upon the emotions and body, through relationships,
sex, life and time are subjects I find I am attracted to and am writing about
as SJ evolve. So lyrics like those in 'Cleave' can still work on different
levels for me.
The album Shame deals with
shame in its different guises and my own lack of it. It is all the more relevant
with the culture of shaming and politically correctness. Politics has never
been part of our agenda, we think it is important for a band like us to be
morally and politically neutral, as indeed I try to be. I've always been more
interested in what affects me and those close to me than what's going on in
some other part of the world. I don't have a very wide social conscience. Our
intention is that our music deals solely with the personal and our obsessions,
and in some way what it is to exist outside of the mainstream. To have an
outsider philosophy. If I'm honest, our horror and anger at an absurd, vile and
powerless human race. All these traits we of course see in ourselves. Hence our
music often deals with those traits we find most abhorrent, yet through no
choice find we are attraction to. I think what we do is very much at odds with
the romantic lie at the heart of so much art. However to be honest and at the
risk of sounding hypocritical I should state 'Shame' and 'The Muse' are a
little different, because both were overshadowed by a series of seismic
negative personal events, which is reflected in the tone and content of both
albums. We hope we don't find ourselves making music of a similar nature any
time soon. We found ourselves a little overwhelmed. Also I should also state, I
have no problem with being a hypocrite, it's such a naive insult.
Idiocratie : “Shame;
shamed; stripped naked for all to see”... Is it the dark lament of the
constantly humiliated and frustrated clerk, living the panoptical age of global
management, digital sex, social networks and social pornography ?
SJ : I am often attracted to the
normal rather than the extraordinary, the nuances rather than the grand
gestures. Something I would have done twenty or thirty years ago. The life of
the everyday regular person or 'clerk' is not much different to any other
perceived life, their struggle is ultimately the same as everyone else's. What
we do on a day to day basis are merely distractions, cause and effect. When SJ
first started I was under the illusion free will existed and once my
understanding changed SJ had to change drastically also. It's the main reason I
struggle with some 20th century SJ and pretty much all PE music and of course
the resulting questions of responsibility and criminality.
Idiocratie : There is a million ways
and reasons to be ashamed but the postmodern world seems to know no shame
anymore. Is there a religious background behind the text of Sutcliffe Jugend ?
SJ : Shame has stifled free speech
and debate, right? That's what it's all about, it's a stealth form of
censorship. We hide the things that shame us all the time. Not because it's an
internal force, but an external force that influences us. It's self protection.
I like the prefixes endo and exo, as in exoskeleton and endoskeleton. The
external and the internal. In exo-behaviour, or external behaviour we all show
shame, concern, empathy etc. for social reasons. When in reality our true
endo-thought or feelings are contrary to those we choose to make public. Or at
least we are indifferent to things that, in a social situation where we are
compelled to agree with the general consensus. Some of us are less inclined to
do so. We all know someone, someone we consider a true friend or ally who we
can speak freely with, without irrational or ignorant snap judgements. It's
kind of what works with musicians and writers and their relationship with
people who understand their work and people on the periphery who don't. I think
we have that kind of relationship with the people who listen to our music,
there's a trust and understanding that develops as a byproduct of the time
invested. We can speak freely and honestly without judgement. Most people in
the post industrial scene are intelligent, inquisitive and knowledgeable, so
it's a good creative environment, not hindered or stifled by too much
negativity or prejudice.
I know on a personal level shame is not an emotion I
can relate to, so I'm a victim of that myself. I struggle with all terms for
such things, pride, hate, envy and all the other terms for human emotions and
feelings, they're so over simplified, closed definitions that are alien to me.
Language although at times so brutal, beautiful and elegant, ultimately fails
us with it's limitations and interpretations. Another favourite term of mine
'the exponential lie of perception' fits well here. The post-Christian shaming
we see today in the media and online, I'm sure has links to religion and
control. I would suspect the innate drive to believe and the need for hope are
hard wired and part of the evolution of any highly intelligent life, so it's
kind of inevitable. There is for sure, a hidden undercurrent of baiting and
religious mockery in what we do. As so often is the case, it's for our own
amusement and another futile kick against misplaced authority, nothing more
than that. It feels like a cheap shot, so it's something we don't do often. We
really have no agenda regards trying to change anything.
Idiocratie : Musically
Shame or Offal have a very unique identity: brutal yet sometimes melodic,
radical yet intimistic, power electronic but very rock'n roll. One can wonder
which other kind of arts, painting, readings, or musical influence, inspired
you ?
SJ : That's a difficult question
to answer. A review suggested a similarity to Morrissey in the way a particular
song from 'Shame' was written and delivered. It started me thinking about other
lyricists and how I find more affinity with the likes of Morrissey, Lou Reed,
Ian Curtis, Nick Cave, and Leonard Cohen than I do to any PE or post industrial
lyric writer. It's a strange mix I've chosen and I'm not suggesting I'm even
close to any of those guys quality wise, or even content wise. However, I can
relate to something about each. Musically there's too much to mention, my
tastes are just too varied, I like pretty much all forms of music, but I
probably only like a handful of artists in each genre, whether that be
classical, jazz, experimental, industrial or whatever. I have broad tastes in
the arts, and in life, I have few prejudices. Swans live are a tour de force in
their latest guise, so they've been an inspiration. If I had to pick one song
that stood out though it would be 'Hello Voyager!' by Evangelista. It's the one
song that never fails to blow me away. As with Morrissey, I don't have to agree
with the sentiment or to share the same plight, although with this track I do
connect. I'd like to say I'm into pure content, but I have aesthetic tastes
also, and some kind of intellectual possession is still important to me. I
guess I can like high or low art in equal measures. I've always been drawn to
Francis Bacon of course, for me his paintings best capture the violence of the
tormented soul. The book of interviews with David Sylvester is articulate as
anything I've read on art, and I felt a strong connection to much of what he
suggests regards his motives. I wonder with many people working in the arts how
much truth we get from them regards motive, the need to sell by justifying
their art in moral terms, is both inevitable, and a real shame. It ruins and
softens the impact and leads to so much mediocrity.
Idiocratie : Do
you favor collaboration with other sort of arts in your work ?
SJ : I will often paint or sketch
images relating to our music,some of which ends up on the album covers. I have
done some work for film and video, and that's something I think we are suited
to and we are keen to explore further. It really depends on the individual
project and it's merits. It's difficult, because one has to be careful not to
dilute, taint or misrepresent what it is you or anyone else is doing.
Idiocratie : The
same year, your album « The Muse » wanders in more peaceful territories than
Offal or Shame. Will you continue to develop more this aspect of your work ?
Does it signal another path ?
SJ : 'The Muse' was not our first
spoken word album of course, and it won't be our last. The first was 'Blue
Rabbit', and we really weren't sure how that album would be received, it was
very introspective and virtually the polar opposite of everything else we'd
released. 'The Muse' is a continuation of that. I'm just finishing work on a
collection of spoken word tracks at the moment. Hopefully that will be released
later this year. Spoken word is something I'm keen to explore more in future,
the words dictate the way in which it's delivered.
Idiocratie : You played in London on
february 3rd, 2017 for the festival “Hinoeuma, the malediction”. How
did you appreciate this live ? What is the importance of live performance for
Sutcliffe Jugend ?
SJ : It's now
essential that we play live, although at first it was a difficult decision to
make because it had to be right. Certain tracks we rehearse cry out to be
played live. When we're in the studio and everything is turned up to ten and
the music is intense and devours your consciousness, you know you have to try
and recapture that live. The London show had moments like that, although it was
difficult for us to enjoy it because we were battling with poor sound on stage.
We've been mixing the more aggressive tracks with almost trance like sections. I've
always used vocal loops and Paul has always used guitar loops, so when we both
feel a track is starting to create some interesting patterns we naturally start
to build things up into an ecstatic climax and try and hold the music in that
trance like state for as long as possible. There really is nothing better.
Idiocratie : Do you feel that there is
a new dynamic today in industrial scene ?
SJ : I'm not the best person to
ask really, but I do keep a passing interest in what's going on. Naturally it's
grown and diversified as all 'scenes' do. I think the diversification has been
good, although a crowded scene inevitably causes dilution. The advent of the
internet has changed how things work and really made it difficult for small
labels with illegal downloading and streaming sites. However it's a great
market place so there's good and bad aspects.
Idiocratie : What are your plans for
the future and the projects or collaboration you're working on today ? (and
when and where do you plan to play live next?
SJ : What one has to understand is
the evolutionary process within a band, so we have certain projects planned and
then who knows where after that. It is often a survival of the fittest when it
comes to ideas,. A good idea will stick and survive the test of time. We have an album coming out called 'Nude And Full Of
Wounds' recorded with an American poet called Matthew Soko, he reads his own
poems and a couple of my own, to which Paul and I have added music. It was a
refreshingly different way of working for us, so we're really pleased with the
way it turned out. He creates interesting vignettes and had a great voice and
delivery, so we hope we've somehow help enhance what he does.
I've just finished another spoken word album,
potentially a double CD, although I may separate it into two parts. I guess
it's kind of a follow up to 'Blue Rabbit' in so far as I've worked alone on the
project. It deals with my usual subjects, but mortality, the effects of time
and relationships are also explored. Paul and I have started
working on new material, so depending how long it takes to reach fruition, we
may have another album ready later in the year. We will have to see how things
develop.
Sutcliffe Jugend sera prochainement en concert au MaschineFest à Oberhausen en Allemagne le 29 octobre 2017.
Dernières sorties :
[1] William
Bennett, fondateur de White House (formation à géométrie variable qui a
vu passer Philip Best, Peter Sotos, Kevin Tomkins, Glenn Michael Wallis, John
Murphy ou Steven Stapleton) a choisi ce nom en référence à Constance Mary
Whitehouse, figure de proue de l’activisme ultraconservateur de l’ère Thatcher.
Mary Whitehouse se trouvait partager son patronyme avec le titre d’une revue
pornographique de l’époque.
